Coolant System Green Goo

[cmillsap]

For the benefit of our other readers, just a few more comments about changing coolants from the standard green coolant to ELC (OAT). It is a difficult process to remove all the existing coolant from our systems in these converted coaches before adding the new coolant. It is said that mixing one with the other is not detrimental except that you lose all the advantages of the ELC. I agree with that to a limited degree. I think that topping off or adding a gallon or so of ELC to the standard coolant (or vice-versa) doesn’t hurt anything. But adding ELC to a system with a large amount of standard coolant remaining in the system and auxiliary circuits found on our converted coaches is not good. I relate it to the same as mixing different motor oils in the engine crankcase or mixing different fluids in the transmission. It’s just not a good practice. Listed below are the color codes depicting coolant types.

David,

Since you have already been through two previous coolant exchanges and this time you flushed your system really well with water before installing the ELC. And with changing to the blank filter, you should be in fine shape to take your trip. The green film may just go away by the time you get back home. If you find that the film is no longer or less in your deaeration tank, odds are that it is gone from inside your transmission cooler. If your transmission temp stays in the acceptable range while you are on your trip, it may not even be necessary to flush your system or take apart the cooler to clean it.

Antifreeze/Coolant Type TMC Spec Suggested Color Code
TMC A—Conventional Low-Silicate RP 302A Green (PMS #374-376

TMC B—Fully Formulated Ethylene Glycol RP 329 Purple/Pink (PMS #235-241)

TMC C—Fully Formulated Propylene Glycol RP330 Blue (PMS #29301)

TMC D—Organic Acid Technology (OAT) Per OEM Specs* Red (PMS #190-193)

*-OAT coolants are defined by the product meeting one or more of the following manufacturers:
• International—Class 8, B-1, Type III
• Detroit Diesel 7SE298 9804
• Caterpillar EC-1
• Mack 014 GS 17009

[davidbrady]

Chuck,

I'm inclined to agree with you. I don't think the industry really understands what happens when an aged conventional coolant is diluted with an organic coolant or vice versa. While the fluids are individually suitable, when mixed they may not be. From what I can tell this is still very much an open question and the escape clause that engine manufacturers resort to is "drain and discard your coolant on periodic intervals," with the period being a relatively short two to four years. It sounds like a CYA maneuver on the part of the industry. Can you imagine asking a manufacturing facility to drain and dispose of their 100,000 gal industrial closed loop cooling system every 2 years? You can be sure manufacturing industries of this type are very careful about how they maintain and what they put into their industrial cooling systems. Furthermore, depending upon the anti-corrosion/cavitating protective layer laid down by one coolant technology, it may be necessary to use an alkaline rinse to remove it to enable a different coolant technology to work. The two tools in our arsenal are flush and clean, and drain and discard before migrating to another coolant technology. Perhaps this is enough.

[davidbrady]

Here's a nicely written article by a coolant testing lab (Wear Check Africa) on the care and handling of our coolant and coolant systems:

  tech28.pdf (Size: 799.66 KB / Downloads: 5)

[cmillsap]

Here's a good video showing the advantages of ELC. Click on the second arrow located beside the pic of the 1 gal Fleet Charge coolant.
David, after reading all the literature above and watching the video, you've convinced me. So, I'll have the coolant system in my coach switched to ELC (oat) red coolant.

https://www.grainger.com/product/48ZE76&...0705182911

[davidbrady]

(07-05-2017 15:31)cmillsap Wrote:  Here's a good video showing the advantages of ELC. Click on the second arrow located beside the pic of the 1 gal Fleet Charge coolant.
David, after reading all the literature above and watching the video, you've convinced me. So, I'll have the coolant system in my coach switched to ELC (oat) red coolant.

https://www.grainger.com/product/48ZE76&...0705182911

Thanks Chuck,

Here's an article which shows the superior passivation protection of OATs. Check out the pics at the end:
  Corrosion Inhibitors in Antifreeze Coolants_Szilagyi.pdf (Size: 588.11 KB / Downloads: 3)

[davidbrady]

I had a coolant analysis done on the coolant I dumped from my system. This is the coolant that's been in there for 3 years and 15000 miles. If I was smart I would have done a Level_2 analysis. What I got is a Level_1 which doesn't provide much, but what it does provide is very encouraging. Of what they checked, everything looks great. It's a little hard to read; zoom way in. In short, there are no precipitates, the pH is spot on, the conductivity is correct indicating no abnormal corrosion, and the nitrites are perfect. The analysis came back perfectly normal which is reassuring and enforces my decision not to do a caustic alkaline rinse.

[Hisham Amaral]

Great news David, go on your trip and enjoy the time with the kids and Suzann.

[Itchintogo]

Well here is my two cents which with the current currency exchange is worth .0152 USD. Ha! Whoopee!

Back in the 80s and 90s we were all running standard green coolant that is all there was. The guys who didn't look after their coolant had problems...sometimes. I have seen cavitation take out a couple of engines. Those that looked after their SCA levels and used the release type filters and test strips rarely if ever had coolant related problems. We were hauling groceries, hardware ( a load of nails is a very freaking heavy load I can tell you) and fuel tankers. 45, 53 trailers and B trains and Super B Trains and turnpike doubles ( a 53 and a 45 hooked together) you need all the road to turn corners with that. Only on 4 lane highways with those. Often my equipment would make two trips a week over the mountains from Calgary to Vancouver. Sometimes one trip and then some Alberta stuff.

These were S60 Cat 3406 Cummins 14 litre engines that all went 130,000 miles a year or more. Engines going 400 -600 or 700 hundred thousand miles and then receiving an in frame or some kind of work. Not that many go a million miles like all the hype everyone says. Some do make it but I don't feel it is the majority. DD 13 rating today is only 50% with no major work to a million miles. I remember I had a friend with a cabover Kenworth that went forever with a 425 Cat Block 3406. That thing you couldn't stop. Two drivers every day for years. But most required something before a million.

Maybe in busses they might go far because they are not pulling the loads the trucks do. Your not tugging 120,000 pounds up and down the mountains with a set of super b trains. S60 in a Prevost or BB is virtually on holidays! You would flush and change at the related time intervals. Lots of miles on that coolant. Also if you think about it, all the 2 stroke engines and there were tons of them, they would have more vibration with all the moving parts they (supercharger etc) have and every stroke is a combustion stroke. Way more heat too.Now these days this is not the case.

On my BB I would drain the radiator every spring and fill it back up with a fresh mix. Then run the bus an exercise trip and adjust if required. Standard green stuff. If you use a release type filter not much adjusting required. That way every year you had a fresh batch of coolant with all the goodies in it in the system no mixing or contaminating at reasonable cost and available nearly anywhere if needed on the road for some reason. Easy enough. If I were Chuck that is what I would do. It will outlast Chuck and he has a few sheckles for a corned beef sandwich. Or another piece of mighty fine plywood like he posted awhile back.

I have not to date heard of a bus that lost a liner because of cavitation. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened but in my years of reading forums I have never seen it come up. They usually don't go far enough. Usually something else fails and causes a problem. Hoses, water pumps, loose nut behind the wheel etc!

Just my thoughts. My Duramax came with OAT and I have flushed and changed it with OAT. But if it had come with green green it would be. I am keeping that truck forever. No particulate filters no regen or DEF. People still want to buy it all time time. She turns 11 this month. Still like new to drive. 110,000 miles so just nicely broken in.

[cmillsap]

Hi Gary,

Good to hear from you again, You should post your knowledgeable and "common sense" comments like the one above more often.

[davidbrady]

Many miles later and lots of mountain climbs and we're here at 10,000 ft in Colorado. Spongebob is running very well and very cool. Glad I chose not to use any caustic flush agents. I'll do a level-2 coolant analysis when we return and report back. I'll also open up the filter. I recently cut open a filter and it was clean.