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Looking at an XLII -- need advice
09-18-2016, 23:19
Post: #11
RE: Looking at an XLII -- need advice
(09-17-2016 16:06)davidbrady Wrote:  Sky,

Hish has a very, very nice coach. It'd be hard to find a better one. It's in incredible condition. Hish has maintained it superbly and you'd be hard-pressed to find any deficiencies. Hish is an engineer and a pilot and has always been proactive with coach maintenance and records.

I want to add that while I like the electrics of the Vantare, the d-bulb compression slide seals, and the full schematics and documentation, there really aren't any bad converters. Country Coach, Liberty, Millennium, Vantare, Marathon, Royale, Parliament, and others all rank as among the best and will easily meet or exceed the house quality that we're used to in a Blue Bird Wanderlodge. Then there are the not so well known converters: Bruce Coach, Angola, American, American Coach, Thompson, Legendary, Custom Coach, Vogue, Panterra, etc, they too meet or exceed the craftsmanship that we've grown accustomed to in a Wanderlodge. There really aren't any bad converters. They simply differ in how they lay out their electrics, plumbing, the use of air powered devices, air conditioners, Crestron RTI, or AMX, Prevost slides, or Valid, or HWH, or Vantare slides, etc. The nits we pick with each converter are just that and tend to come down to personal preference. I have yet to step foot in a Prevost conversion by any of the above that hasn't passed the Wanderlodge bar in terms of quality interior layout, components, and construction. There are no bad converters. No one buys a half million dollar bus chassis and installs a sub par house. It's all at least as good as Wanderlodge and very often better.

I spoke to Hish for quite some time on Friday. I could tell from the photos he sent and from speaking with him that he has a top-notch coach.

I will have to say that after having an Angola and looking at other conversions, I do think they vary quite a bit in terms of quality of components and craftsmanship. I was not impressed with the Angola conversion. The Vantare looks like they used much better components; specifically the wiring, breaker panel, fresh water pump and plumbing. I just can't get past using Romex and household panels in a coach. The vibration alone makes unstranded wire a very poor choice. We have all seen coaches that have had electrical fires. Its all just fine until its not.

When I converted that old Eagle, I used only marine-grade stranded tinned copper wire. That was in the early 90's. I also prefer to have the ability to run every load off of the inverter. I see no reason for sub-panels. The inverters should be treated as just another source like a generator. That is how I wired my boat. I may have to manage the loads to make sure I don't exceed the limits of the inverter, but don't have to try to remember what plug or light is actually connected to the inverter. I can use whatever load I want to run. They are all powered.
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09-19-2016, 00:18 (This post was last modified: 09-19-2016 11:02 by travelite.)
Post: #12
RE: Looking at an XLII -- need advice
I agree, there are definitely some that are better than others.

Vantare may be unique in their use of stranded tinned 120VAC wiring. Not all converters do that, and Wanderlodge doesn't do that either. I've never seen 120VAC stranded wiring in a Wanderlodge, only romex. I guess that's my point when I said they're at least as good as Wanderlodge.

In my opinion Vantare electrics are above average even in the Prevost conversion world. Vantare began in the Yachting world. Mike Guth then decided to enter the luxury motorhome market. Many of the things that were second nature in the yachting world, like stranded and tinned 120VAC wiring, he carried over into his Vantare motorcoaches.

I wouldn't buy a coach that doesn't have all its loads wired to an inverter. After living with my coach, having loads on a separate panel in front of a separate transfer switch would drive me nuts. The Vantare way is the way any EE would lay it out. It just makes sense. It provides the maximum in flexibility using the least number of parts. I have one transfer switch and its inside my inverter where it belongs. Well, I have two, one in each inverter. Pure simplicity. The art of engineering: doing the most with the least.

Is it perfect? No. I wish I could power any load from any inverter. Instead, I'm constrained to power half the loads with one inverter and the other half with the other. It'd be better if there were a cross connect switch that allowed me to move loads from on inverter to the other. This would help when one inverter is oversubscribed while the other is undersubscribed. I could then move loads back and forth. A bank of DIN rail mount SPDT contactors would do it. Nevertheless, Vantare's implementation is heads and tails above the rest. Alas, most folks buy bling and turn a blind eye to the engineering.

david brady,
'02 Wanderlodge LXi 'Smokey' (Sold),
'04 Prevost H3 Vantare 'SpongeBob'

"there is no perfect forum there are only perfect forums"
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09-19-2016, 11:25 (This post was last modified: 09-19-2016 11:26 by SKYCHENEY.)
Post: #13
RE: Looking at an XLII -- need advice
I think I've narrowed the search to an H3 Vantare with no slides. I've gotten to where I am in my search because I want quality of construction, simplicity, and the best engineered coach I can find. I don't care about the bling and the wife will end up redecorating it as she sees fit no matter what we buy.

I say no slides just for simplicity. I don't want another maintenance item. I don't want the hassle of possibly getting one stuck and not being able to drive it and I don't want the possibility of leaks. I've also got to believe that the overall structure is compromised to some extent when you you have slides. Then there is the issue of less room and limited access to the bays with the slides and also any electrical or plumbing that runs to anything in the slide. Lastly is the issue of cold climate operation. Its got to easier to heat without slides which also minimizes the chance of freezing up something.

So I guess what I'm looking for is a mechanically sound, well maintained unit with good paint. The interior soft goods are of lesser concern as those will probably get switched out/upgraded anyway. Let me know should any of you come across such a unit. I'm in no hurry and may wait until spring to pull the trigger. I would think with no slides, I should be able to find something for under 250.
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09-21-2016, 15:08 (This post was last modified: 09-21-2016 19:35 by davidbrady.)
Post: #14
RE: Looking at an XLII -- need advice
Sky,

Phil Cooper's got a couple of slideless Vantare's for sale including this 1999 with 45,000 miles on it: http://www.philcooper.com/inventory/h345...nversion/#

Over in the Vantare Slide Cutout Structure Reinforcement thread I show that there's no appreciable chassis strength loss due to the slide cutout - if there is it's imperceptible to me. This is because of the extensive beams designed and installed by Vantare to add strength back in. Donny Myers and the ex-Vantare employees at DMRV explained to me how Vantare did an engineering structural analysis of the Prevost chassis using FEA techniques, similar to mine, to determine the size and placement of the cutout reinforcements. Any cutout which interrupts load paths must be reinforced to restore the required strength. Vantare worked on this in conjunction with an outside engineering firm and with Prevost. Prevost certainly wasn't about to let a converter tarnish its reputation with a half baked chassis cutout reinforcement. This is how they were able to produce a slide equipped bus that doesn't leak, rattle, or compromise the structure. They went to great lengths to add the strength back into the chassis by adding engineered beams around the slide cutout. After 15000 miles my testimonial is they got it right! No one should be scared of a slideout impementation in a Vantare.

david brady,
'02 Wanderlodge LXi 'Smokey' (Sold),
'04 Prevost H3 Vantare 'SpongeBob'

"there is no perfect forum there are only perfect forums"
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09-22-2016, 21:37 (This post was last modified: 09-22-2016 21:40 by SKYCHENEY.)
Post: #15
RE: Looking at an XLII -- need advice
(09-21-2016 15:08)davidbrady Wrote:  Sky,

Phil Cooper's got a couple of slideless Vantare's for sale including this 1999 with 45,000 miles on it: http://www.philcooper.com/inventory/h345...nversion/#

Over in the Vantare Slide Cutout Structure Reinforcement thread I show that there's no appreciable chassis strength loss due to the slide cutout - if there is it's imperceptible to me. This is because of the extensive beams designed and installed by Vantare to add strength back in. Donny Myers and the ex-Vantare employees at DMRV explained to me how Vantare did an engineering structural analysis of the Prevost chassis using FEA techniques, similar to mine, to determine the size and placement of the cutout reinforcements. Any cutout which interrupts load paths must be reinforced to restore the required strength. Vantare worked on this in conjunction with an outside engineering firm and with Prevost. Prevost certainly wasn't about to let a converter tarnish its reputation with a half baked chassis cutout reinforcement. This is how they were able to produce a slide equipped bus that doesn't leak, rattle, or compromise the structure. They went to great lengths to add the strength back into the chassis by adding engineered beams around the slide cutout. After 15000 miles my testimonial is they got it right! No one should be scared of a slideout impementation in a Vantare.

That one that you reference that Phil Cooper has listed is in British Columbia. I spoke to the owner. He bought it sight unseen in 2011 from the widow of the Walmart CEO. At that time it had 25,000 miles on it. I like it, but it is a little different in the master stateroom with the side isle and N-S bed. It may be okay, but I think you'd have to see it in person and Vancouver is long way away to just go looking.

Right now I'm concentrating on rebuilding my barn. I live on a farm and my current RV barn is not high enough to accommodate an H3. I have another barn that is a concrete block structure 35x75 with 13'6" height. I need to roof it, side it, insulate it, and put some heat in it. This may take some time as we don't have anybody up here that wants to work anymore. Getting a contractor is usually a long wait. I'll buy now if I find that perfect coach, but otherwise I think I'll wait until I have a nice heated building ready to go with electric and water.

In the mean time I'll keep coming over here and learning from you guys. I'll be an expert before long Smile

BTW, that XLII that I almost pulled the trigger on is back on ebay. The price is even lower now. Thanks again for the heads up on the delamination issues.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Prevost-Featherl...2268218944
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09-23-2016, 12:40 (This post was last modified: 09-23-2016 12:41 by davidbrady.)
Post: #16
RE: Looking at an XLII -- need advice
Hi Sky,

That's a really pretty bus, but Donny Myers (ex-Vantare employee, owner of DMRV in Sanford Florida, and Oracle of all things Vantare) recommended to me to skip the XLII Vantare conversions in favor of the H. I know you're presently only considering an H3-45, but I just want to add that Donny said that in his opinion Vantare didn't convert enough XLII's to fully flush out all the issues. H3-45 VIP conversions were Vantare's forte'. I think Vantare did something like 800 H3 conversions. I didn't ask how many XLII's they did, but they don't come up that often. Mostly what you see out there are H3's.

david brady,
'02 Wanderlodge LXi 'Smokey' (Sold),
'04 Prevost H3 Vantare 'SpongeBob'

"there is no perfect forum there are only perfect forums"
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03-18-2017, 01:07
Post: #17
RE: Looking at an XLII -- need advice
Here’s an advisory that merits repeating

If you are in the market for a Prevost XL2 or XL3 with the rivet-less stainless panels, you should insist on a pre-purchase inspection performed by a Prevost Service Center. The inspection should include an interior pressure test to determine if any of the stainless panels have experienced delamination due to the adhesive becoming unglued between the stainless panels and the structural framework underneath.

Failure to do so could leave you with an expensive repair to re-attach the panels and repair water damage to the interior of the bus and weeks in the repair center to get it fixed.


Chuck & Tela Millsap
Arizona
2003 Marathon XLII S/S
2000 Wanderlodge LXi S/S
2004 Wanderlodge M380 D/S
2000 Wanderlodge LXi N
/S
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03-18-2017, 08:49
Post: #18
RE: Looking at an XLII -- need advice
I had an 06 Legendary here a couple months ago. Prevost is replacing his slide exterior panel at their expense because of the delamination.

Ernie Ekberg
97 Liberty XL Classic
4 Wanderlodges- sold
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