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cubeman · 02-22-2019, 20:24

Seems like I stumbled upon this recently . So like David I have a outdated still working Guest Charge Pro . But I wonder if like David mine will shut off automatically when the ignition is on . I guess I could go outside to see but it is cold out ,lol

Chuck I'm surprised that the marathon did not design for this on your model year . What were they thinking ? Maybe the coach would not be parked ?

***cmillsap*** · (This post was last modified: 02-22-2019 21:06 by cmillsap.)

(02-22-2019 20:24)cubeman Wrote: Seems like I stumbled upon this recently . So like David I have a outdated still working Guest Charge Pro . But I wonder if like David mine will shut off automatically when the ignition is on . I guess I could go outside to see but it is cold out ,lol

Chuck I'm surprised that the marathon did not design for this on your model year . What were they thinking ? Maybe the coach would not be parked ?

Al,

The theory is that a Chassis Battery Charger is not needed if the coach is used frequently. Normal use should suffice to keep the batteries charged. Just like in our automobiles. However, our coaches tend to sit for long periods and develop more parasitic drains causing the chassis batteries to become discharged. Your coach may not have a “smart” charger which means you must manually charge you batteries. Sometimes, a dumb charger is wired to disconnect when the ignition is turned on and some are not depending on the converter. My "smart" charger has diodes built into the battery leads to prevent back charging when the S60 is running.
Since my coach sits a lot, I installed a “smart” Charger. If you decide to install one be sure to get a charger that can charge 2 separate banks and 12V/24V @10A. Also, keeping your chassis batteries fully charged (float) will extend their useful life.

cubeman · (This post was last modified: 02-22-2019 21:23 by cubeman.)

Remember that the Chassis battery wiring was done by Prevost, not Vantare. Only a few connections were added by Vantare:
Gen battery boost, Guest Marine charger (which have fuses at the end of the leads that connect to the chassis batteries), and the alternator charge line to the starter is altered to add the dual battery isolator.

Gil is correct, the battery temperature sensors were not originally installed on the same battery, and that is a definite change that should be made. If they are on the same battery, their adjustment to charge voltage for each corresponding inverter will be the same, and will prevent a "conflict" in having both inverters charge the same battery bank. They should not be removed or disconnected, as some technicians baffled by the operation tend to do with or without asking. If they are both installed and operating to adjust inverter charging per unit of temperature, the inverters will not overcharge the batteries. The charging amps settings then do not need to be adjusted from the factory defaults, and all will be well. If one charger is essentially disabled, bare in mind that the recharge time will be SIGNIFICANTLY longer for such a large battery bank like Vantare coaches all have.

As for the circuit protection issues Gil brought up, remember that Vantare's have the engine battery boost feature, and in cold weather a Series 60 can draw in excess of 500 amps to start, not counting a higher "in-rush" to the series-wound starter motor, plus the current going to the dead starting batteries themselves. Any added fuses should account for this or the risk exists that during a "jump start" exercise the fuse protection would blow, essentially "killing" the house power into the coach altogether.

Also, realize that there were alterations made as time went on and the NEC requirements changed. During that period, there was allowance for the amount of "distance" from the batteries to the circuit protection where required. All the cabling and busbars were in the same area on most coaches (over the passenger-side wheel well on H3-45 slideout coaches), and were made up as an "assembly" in PVC piping off-coach, then installed and connected to the batteries and busbars in the coach. This was done to ensure that chaffing or damage did not occur to the wiring.

Words of wisdom from Benn . man do I miss this man .

Gil, the reason there is a connection to both the "12v" and "24v" potentials of the chassis batteries is that the Guest charger Vantare utilized has two independent, isolated 12v outputs. By connecting them in series to the Ground-and-12v with one output, and then the 12v-and-24v with the other output, they achieved overall 24v chassis battery charging. The outlet for this charger is ignition-switched, and disabled when the key is on, so "fighting" the Vanner equalizer is prevented. This configuration also insures that all the batteries are evenly and completely charged even if the equalizer were to fail. The Guest charger controls the charging outputs separately, but in effect, it is like taking each 12v battery out and fully charging each separately but fully.

Ben Cummings
U.S.A. Luxury Coaches, LLC
4501-B Ulmerton Rd
Clearwater, FL 33762
USALuxurycoach.com
813-830-8619 (cell)

the follow up on our chargers .

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Thanks Ben. That's why I was looking for the manual. I would throw that charger away given it's a 12V charger with 2 outputs. Failure of one side, however remote, would only charge half the bank. In my opinion, there's no reason not to use a 24V intelligent charger.

Benn also agreed that these charges have a high rate of failure. So David how do we test these chargers ? What I did was test one side then the other . One showed the 13 plus the other 24 plus minus . So would you say it works ? Then the next question is , what if they are not balanced , then what ? Do we kill batteries ?

***travelite*** · (This post was last modified: 02-23-2019 21:20 by travelite.)

Al, I personally think the failures are due to heat. I'm not sure about the XL but in the H3 the charger along with the Vanner equalizers are placed in the sealed basement bay aft of the curb-side tag axle wheel. On my H3, that compartment has no ventilation and in the summertime after a day of driving the temperatures there soar. It desperately needs a vent and a fan. Until I install ventilation I typically open that compartment upon reaching our destination to let things cool off.

The battery temperature sensors are controversial. Here again we're trying to get two inverters to behave like one w/o the SWI cable. It's true that the sensors themselves are not electrically identical. Then there's the analog to digital circuitry on the Trace inverters adding their own variance. The circuitry going into the ADC (analog to digital converter) is all analog with passive components that have their own tolerances. There's no way two independent inverters with two separate BTS (battery temperature sensors) are going to sense the same temperature readings. This exasperates the issue of one inverter going into Absorption and starting it's Absorption countdown timer sooner than the other, and I'm not so sure the difference in timer expirations is negligible. With modified battery voltages corrected by BTS readings there can be hours differences in Absorption timer expirations which can truly have an effect on bringing a battery bank to 110% during absorption. So this is an area where folks disagree and where we might be better off disconnecting the BTS's. At least if they're disconnected we can manage the Bulk/Float time differential between two independent inverters. With the BTS's in place I'm not so sure. This needs further investigation.

cubeman · 02-23-2019, 10:37

I guess it is good to test the chargers once in a while , would you agree ?

davidbrady · 02-23-2019, 12:00

Sure, definitely put a multimeter on it once in a while and check charging voltages. In reality, you'll know plenty soon if it's not working because your batteries will quickly discharge. There's plenty of DDEC and Allison current drain. I think DMRV likes to put that stuff behind a solenoid to improve the boondock-ability of the Vantare. I desperately need some ventilation in my chassis battery compartment. After a day of driving in the southwest my charger won't even turn on till it cools off - the heat triggers the thermal shutdown switch!

cubeman · 02-23-2019, 12:07

I have been reading about the charger and have a question . If we are boon docking why would we use this charger ? Would it not just use more voltage to charge than it charges ? Then when we start the genny the inverters do the charging so what good would a little 5amp do anyway ?

davidbrady · 02-23-2019, 12:27

In the Vantare, the inverters don't charge the chassis batteries. I leave my charger CB on all the time. This a common theme with Prevost conversions. Converters don't like to tap into Prevost chassis subsystems. This way the Prevost Service Centers know what's their problem and what's not, and likewise with the converters.

cubeman · 02-23-2019, 12:30

ok , now we are getting somewhere . But do you turn it off when driving as the Alternator takes over charging ?

davidbrady · (This post was last modified: 02-23-2019 13:26 by travelite.)

On my coach, and probably on yours too, the outlet the charger plugs into is switched off by the ignition key. When the key is on, there's no power going to the 120VAC outlet. Smile

Furthermore, as Chuck was describing, the Guest charger as well as the Marinco chargers are diode protected so there's no current backfeed when they're off.