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Prevost XLII Skin Delamination Repair
05-11-2018, 20:33 (This post was last modified: 05-11-2018 20:37 by cmillsap.)
Post: #51
RE: Prevost XLII Skin Delamination Repair
(05-11-2018 19:07)davidbrady Wrote:  Hi Cattfuu,

Probably the best thing for you to do is to take any XLII that you're considering buying to a Prevost Service Center and have them examine the coach for panel separation. Only Prevost knows exactly what the issue is and why it occurred. In the years you're looking at panel delam is a reality. You asked, "which manufacturing years have been mostly affected"? I'd say, and only based on anecdotal evidence, the years from 2000 through 2010. It may go beyond that but reports are sketchy. No one but Prevost knows if slided coaches are more afflicted or if 45 footers are more afflicted than 40 footers, and so on. It's more than likely a process phenomenon related to panel preparation and adhesive application conditions and restrictions. There are several fixes that Prevost is offering, but I'm afraid there won't be any financial help on a coach over ten years old. If you can get Prevost's opinion on the bus you're considering purchasing and if you can get a quote from Prevost for the cost of repairs, that's a very good bargaining chip in negotiating purchase price. Good luck!

Pay attention to what David is telling you above but don't be dissuaded from buying an XLll. My XLll has never had a loose panel. Just have the panels inspected by Prevost along with their pre-purchase mechanical inspection to know exactly what you are buying regarding the Prevost chassis. Last time I had it done, it cost $500. That's money well spent. Either do a thorough inspection yourself on the condition of converter (household) items or if possible, have the converter do a Pre Delivery Inspection (PDI).
Know What You Are Buying!!!


Chuck & Tela Millsap
Arizona
2003 Marathon XLII S/S
2000 Wanderlodge LXi S/S
2004 Wanderlodge M380 D/S
2000 Wanderlodge LXi N
/S
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cattfuu (05-12-2018)
05-12-2018, 10:15
Post: #52
RE: Prevost XLII Skin Delamination Repair
(05-11-2018 20:33)cmillsap Wrote:  
(05-11-2018 19:07)davidbrady Wrote:  Hi Cattfuu,

Probably the best thing for you to do is to take any XLII that you're considering buying to a Prevost Service Center and have them examine the coach for panel separation. Only Prevost knows exactly what the issue is and why it occurred. In the years you're looking at panel delam is a reality. You asked, "which manufacturing years have been mostly affected"? I'd say, and only based on anecdotal evidence, the years from 2000 through 2010. It may go beyond that but reports are sketchy. No one but Prevost knows if slided coaches are more afflicted or if 45 footers are more afflicted than 40 footers, and so on. It's more than likely a process phenomenon related to panel preparation and adhesive application conditions and restrictions. There are several fixes that Prevost is offering, but I'm afraid there won't be any financial help on a coach over ten years old. If you can get Prevost's opinion on the bus you're considering purchasing and if you can get a quote from Prevost for the cost of repairs, that's a very good bargaining chip in negotiating purchase price. Good luck!

Pay attention to what David is telling you above but don't be dissuaded from buying an XLll. My XLll has never had a loose panel. Just have the panels inspected by Prevost along with their pre-purchase mechanical inspection to know exactly what you are buying regarding the Prevost chassis. Last time I had it done, it cost $500. That's money well spent. Either do a thorough inspection yourself on the condition of converter (household) items or if possible, have the converter do a Pre Delivery Inspection (PDI).
Know What You Are Buying!!!

Our follow-up question is regarding the two different tests to check for separation. We read about the bubble test, where the bus gets soaped up and then pressurized to check for bubbles. The other test procedure seems a bit more mysterious to us and less conclusive. Is it simply a walk around using a tool trying to lift/pry the panels to check for movement? Are all Prevost maintenance facilities set up to perform the bubble test and what is the $ amount for that test should somebody here know. How does the Marathon dealership panel check differ from the Prevost facility test?

We have been reading and studying whatever we could find over the last 1.5 years. After everything we have learned we have come to the conclusion that the only difference between all XL2s produced from 2000 to 2010 is that some already leaked and were repaired to varying degree of success, and those that have not yet, but will leak in the future as the buses get older. What we take from this is that on a sixteen year old bus we better have about $40,000 squirreled away specifically for re-attachment of panels (once or twice) and possibly repainting if they fly off while driving. Labor costs will continue to increase over our hopefully 15 years of ownership, so we need to factor that in as well. Trying to step into this with eyes wide open!

By the way, thank you to both of you for your replies. So very much appreciated!!!
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05-12-2018, 11:18
Post: #53
RE: Prevost XLII Skin Delamination Repair
The best test for delimitation is the Prevost pressure test at their service center. Prevost installs a fan in the tall window and pressurize the whole bus, then they soap up the bus skin joints to find all leaks, at that time Prevost will determine the what is required to do repair. If the coach is older than 10 years Prevost will not help pay for the repairs. The owner will be required to also pay for paint.
2 years ago a neighbor in Florida with a 2011 XL2 had to do the rivet repair, with the help of the converter Prevost did the repair and paint at no cost to the owner.
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05-12-2018, 14:15 (This post was last modified: 05-12-2018 14:28 by cmillsap.)
Post: #54
RE: Prevost XLII Skin Delamination Repair
(05-12-2018 10:15)cattfuu Wrote:  
(05-11-2018 20:33)cmillsap Wrote:  
(05-11-2018 19:07)davidbrady Wrote:  Hi Cattfuu,

Probably the best thing for you to do is to take any XLII that you're considering buying to a Prevost Service Center and have them examine the coach for panel separation. Only Prevost knows exactly what the issue is and why it occurred. In the years you're looking at panel delam is a reality. You asked, "which manufacturing years have been mostly affected"? I'd say, and only based on anecdotal evidence, the years from 2000 through 2010. It may go beyond that but reports are sketchy. No one but Prevost knows if slided coaches are more afflicted or if 45 footers are more afflicted than 40 footers, and so on. It's more than likely a process phenomenon related to panel preparation and adhesive application conditions and restrictions. There are several fixes that Prevost is offering, but I'm afraid there won't be any financial help on a coach over ten years old. If you can get Prevost's opinion on the bus you're considering purchasing and if you can get a quote from Prevost for the cost of repairs, that's a very good bargaining chip in negotiating purchase price. Good luck!

Pay attention to what David is telling you above but don't be dissuaded from buying an XLll. My XLll has never had a loose panel. Just have the panels inspected by Prevost along with their pre-purchase mechanical inspection to know exactly what you are buying regarding the Prevost chassis. Last time I had it done, it cost $500. That's money well spent. Either do a thorough inspection yourself on the condition of converter (household) items or if possible, have the converter do a Pre Delivery Inspection (PDI).
Know What You Are Buying!!!

Our follow-up question is regarding the two different tests to check for separation. We read about the bubble test, where the bus gets soaped up and then pressurized to check for bubbles. The other test procedure seems a bit more mysterious to us and less conclusive. Is it simply a walk around using a tool trying to lift/pry the panels to check for movement? Are all Prevost maintenance facilities set up to perform the bubble test and what is the $ amount for that test should somebody here know. How does the Marathon dealership panel check differ from the Prevost facility test?

We have been reading and studying whatever we could find over the last 1.5 years. After everything we have learned we have come to the conclusion that the only difference between all XL2s produced from 2000 to 2010 is that some already leaked and were repaired to varying degree of success, and those that have not yet, but will leak in the future as the buses get older. What we take from this is that on a sixteen year old bus we better have about $40,000 squirreled away specifically for re-attachment of panels (once or twice) and possibly repainting if they fly off while driving. Labor costs will continue to increase over our hopefully 15 years of ownership, so we need to factor that in as well. Trying to step into this with eyes wide open!

By the way, thank you to both of you for your replies. So very much appreciated!!!

There are many 2000 to 2010 XLll out there that have never had a problem with skin delamination and probably never will. It's always a possibility that some may suffer delamination. I believe those units that suffered delamination was due to the combination of improper installation (not glued properly) and the environment the bus is subjected to such as extreme cold or extreme heat. If you let the bus sit in direct sunlight for a lengthy time where the surface temperature of the stainless panels can reach 130/140 degrees F, you increase the possibility of the glue melting and thereby destroying its adhesion properties. Unequal shrinkage (contraction) amounts between the stainless panels and the glue in extremely cold weather may also cause delamination.

Just my 2 cents for whatever it's worth.

You asked about the cost, Prevost charged me $500 to inspect the panels before I bought the bus. The agreement with the seller was if I bought the bus he would reimburse me for that charge.


Chuck & Tela Millsap
Arizona
2003 Marathon XLII S/S
2000 Wanderlodge LXi S/S
2004 Wanderlodge M380 D/S
2000 Wanderlodge LXi N
/S
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05-15-2018, 08:35
Post: #55
RE: Prevost XLII Skin Delamination Repair
where is the coach located?
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05-15-2018, 13:27 (This post was last modified: 05-15-2018 13:48 by travelite.)
Post: #56
RE: Prevost XLII Skin Delamination Repair
Even rivets aren't immune, see attached articles from Newell Coach. When you're building something this big there's always going to be movement. It'll be interesting to watch this development. Newell's solution is to go with larger, stronger rivets, but there's limits to this approach - eventually the strength of the skin bearing area and tear out becomes the limiting factor. Maybe it's my eyes, but the holes appear to be somewhat randomly placed and close to the edge of the panel.


Attached File(s)
.pdf  Newll_Rivet_Inspection_Procedure.pdf (Size: 393.49 KB / Downloads: 13)
.pdf  Newell_Rivet_Campaign.pdf (Size: 183.42 KB / Downloads: 10)

david brady,
'02 Wanderlodge LXi 'Smokey' (Sold),
'04 Prevost H3 Vantare 'SpongeBob'

"there is no perfect forum there are only perfect forums"
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07-28-2018, 08:25
Post: #57
RE: Prevost XLII Skin Delamination Repair
I inspect Prevost conversions and my opinion is that the delamination failures were likely due to inadequate panel preparation. I've never see the adhesive still on a delaminated panel. It's always been on the chassis. Just my opinion.

As a seller I would not welcome someone attempting to pry the panels loose. This is the first I've heard of such test.

I've seen coaches with no delamination, some with panels on the sunny side loose and the worst case was a 2006 chassis with 8 loose panels.
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