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Setting your Trace Auto Gen Start Parameters
04-19-2019, 11:41 (This post was last modified: 04-19-2019 11:45 by davidbrady.)
Post: #51
RE: Setting your Trace Auto Gen Start Parameters
(04-18-2019 20:10)Jerry_94110 Wrote:  This is great information and a big learning curve on my part.

In the last year with the BB, we have only been plugged into power once or twice. The BB is stored where no power is available and we normally dry camp. I am religious about keeping the batteries topped off. Once a week I run the generator between 1 and 1.5 hours to charge up the batteries and when we dry camp I only use the inverter (which is a trace 2000w) for the TV, lights, charging phones and laptops. Any heavy draw items such as the coffee maker or microwave, I fire up the generator, even though the inverter can handle these task. My BB's house and chassis batteries are combined, so I have always been cautious. I also got into a habit of running the generator at the end of each trip to top off the batteries before storing the coach.

It sounds like with the 1998 Vantare, everything goes through the inverters? Any incoming power whether it is from a power post at an RV park or your generator is only charging your batteries?

Hi Jerry,

The Trace SW4024 has a built-in transfer switch. When you're on shore or generator power you are directly connected to the available 120VAC power via the Trace's internal transfer switch. Concurrently with this, the inverter is monitoring the source power and is either using it for battery charging or using the battery power to augment source power if increasing loads cause voltages to dip.

Yes, the inverters are wired to power everything. When connected to shore or genny this isn't a problem. Load management is required when there is no shore or genny power and you're on inverter power. In this case you can't run everything at once. I call this condition "oversubscribed". This isn't usually an issue, but it can be one if you're on shore/genny and you lose power. In this case the inverter will step in to resume powering your loads but your loads may exceed 35A per inverter in which case you'll trip an inverter circuit breaker do to an overcurrent condition. So, if you leave your coach while powered by shore or genny be sure to turn off an AC or other loads so the inverter CB doesn't trip if you lose power.

(04-19-2019 08:26)cubeman Wrote:  Would this be while charging or after she is charged ? We are on a 2 week dry camp so the only power available would be Genny. I guess I'm asking should I wait till they are no longer charging and in the float mode for these values ?

Al, whenever you see the condition that you're describing, be it on outside power with charging or on inverter power.

david brady,
'02 Wanderlodge LXi 'Smokey' (Sold),
'04 Prevost H3 Vantare 'SpongeBob'

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04-19-2019, 13:18
Post: #52
RE: Setting your Trace Auto Gen Start Parameters
(04-19-2019 08:26)cubeman Wrote:  There are switches on the panel in the bay for this option .

So this is what this panel is for. I don't know how to insert a pic, so I attached it....

İmage

Jerry Kocher
1998 Prevost 40XL Vantare
1987 PT38 (8V92) "The Wayward Bird"
San Francisco, CA
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04-19-2019, 19:38
Post: #53
RE: Setting your Trace Auto Gen Start Parameters
Yes Jerry , those on the bottom . Lets say your invertor isn't working . Your driving , so you set to genny turn on the switch to Genny and all good , Inverter bypassed . ?At least that's the way I understand it .

Al Perna
1998 Prevost Vantare
2000 LXI ss ( for sale)
Ormond Beach Fla
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04-20-2019, 11:01 (This post was last modified: 04-20-2019 11:27 by cubeman.)
Post: #54
RE: Setting your Trace Auto Gen Start Parameters
(02-23-2019 12:07)davidbrady Wrote:  It does make sense Al. I have five SW4024's and five SW4024Plus's in my workshop, plus as you know I'm working on replacement circuit boards: http://www.prevostgurus.com/showthread.php?tid=825

The SW4024Plus is a neat unit. It's the same as the standard SW4024 but the big transformer is 50% larger. The Plus can start and run two Cruisairs. Two of these in our Vantare's will greatly ease the load management of our buses. The only problem with them is they don't give priority to the generator.

what do you mean by " they don't give priority to the genny " ?

Well it seems this be a intermittent issue . For now all is well and here are the values while genny is running . One inverter is in float the other still charging . Charge cycle aprox 2 hrs . sorry I thought I separated the values but on the post they are grouped


Go into your meters, menu 4, and for both inverters tell me the following parameters:

1) inverter charger amps AC 15 -02
2) input amps AC 16 0
3) load amps AC 02 01
4) battery actual volts DC 27.6 27.6
5) battery tempcomp volts DC 27.8 27.8
6) inverter volts AC 120 120
7) grid volts AC 0 0
8) generator volts AC 117 +- 118 +-
9) read frequency hertz 61 61

Well it seems this be a intermittent issue . For now all is well and here are the values while genny is running . One inverter is in float the other still charging . Charge cycle aprox 2 hrs . sorry I thought I separated the values but on the post they are grouped


Go into your meters, menu 4, and for both inverters tell me the following parameters:

1) inverter charger amps AC 15 -02
2) input amps AC 16 0
3) load amps AC 02 01
4) battery actual volts DC 27.6 27.6
5) battery tempcomp volts DC 27.8 27.8
6) inverter volts AC 120 120
7) grid volts AC 0 0
8) generator volts AC 117 +- 118 +-
9) read frequency hertz 61 61

Well it seems this be a intermittent issue . For now all is well and here are the values while genny is running . One inverter is in float the other still charging . Charge cycle aprox 2 hrs . sorry I thought I separated the values but on the post they are grouped


Go into your meters, menu 4, and for both inverters tell me the following parameters:

1) inverter charger amps AC 15 -02
2) input amps AC 16 0
3) load amps AC 02 01
4) battery actual volts DC 27.6 27.6
5) battery tempcomp volts DC 27.8 27.8
6) inverter volts AC 120 120
7) grid volts AC 0 0
8) generator volts AC 117 +- 118 +-
9) read frequency hertz 61 61

Well it seems this be a intermittent issue . For now all is well and here are the values while genny is running . One inverter is in float the other still charging . Charge cycle aprox 2 hrs . sorry I thought I separated the values but on the post they are grouped


Go into your meters, menu 4, and for both inverters tell me the following parameters:

1) inverter charger amps AC 15 -02
2) input amps AC 16 0
3) load amps AC 02 01
4) battery actual volts DC 27.6 27.6
5) battery tempcomp volts DC 27.8 27.8
6) inverter volts AC 120 120
7) grid volts AC 0 0
8) generator volts AC 117 +- 118 +-
9) read frequency hertz 61 61

(02-23-2019 12:07)davidbrady Wrote:  It does make sense Al. I have five SW4024's and five SW4024Plus's in my workshop, plus as you know I'm working on replacement circuit boards: http://www.prevostgurus.com/showthread.php?tid=825

The SW4024Plus is a neat unit. It's the same as the standard SW4024 but the big transformer is 50% larger. The Plus can start and run two Cruisairs. Two of these in our Vantare's will greatly ease the load management of our buses. The only problem with them is they don't give priority to the generator.

what do you mean by " they don't give priority to the genny " ?

Al Perna
1998 Prevost Vantare
2000 LXI ss ( for sale)
Ormond Beach Fla
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04-20-2019, 15:43 (This post was last modified: 04-20-2019 15:45 by davidbrady.)
Post: #55
RE: Setting your Trace Auto Gen Start Parameters
Hi Al,

Those values look fine. Keep watching, maybe you can collect data when it's in the questionable condition.

The MC2 inverters are a special Trace firmware release for motorhomes. They give priority to the AC2 connection which is the generator connection over the AC1 connection which is the shore power. This means when you start your generator the internal transfer switch drops shore power and transfers the loads over to generator power. It's all done seamlessly. The way it works is the inverter is already frequency synced to shore power, when the generator starts loads are transferred to inverter power while the inverter locks onto and syncs with the generator frequency. When the inverter power is locked onto the generator frequency and phase, then the inverter backs off and loads are powered by the generator. There's no hiccup in power delivery - seamless!

david brady,
'02 Wanderlodge LXi 'Smokey' (Sold),
'04 Prevost H3 Vantare 'SpongeBob'

"there is no perfect forum there are only perfect forums"
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05-12-2019, 13:58
Post: #56
RE: Setting your Trace Auto Gen Start Parameters
I am boon docking this weekend at Graton Casino so I can get a better understanding of how the inverters work.

When I woke up this morning, the batteries were at 25.6 read from menu 4.4.

I ran the generator for 1.5 hours and the batteries went to 28.8, but one inverter was in float and one was in bulk. I ran the generator for another 1/2 hour until both inverters were in "float", but this made the batteries drop to 26.8. Is this normal? Should I have shut down the generator when the batteries were at 28.8?

Another thing I noticed in the generator menu. The screen shows "off", "auto", "on", "eq". Mine is set to "off". Should this be set to "auto"?

Summary:
Should I shut down generator when batteries show 28.8 via menu 4.4 or let them run until both inverters are in "float".
Should my generator menu be set to "auto"?

Thanks for your help

Jerry Kocher
1998 Prevost 40XL Vantare
1987 PT38 (8V92) "The Wayward Bird"
San Francisco, CA
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05-12-2019, 16:08
Post: #57
RE: Setting your Trace Auto Gen Start Parameters
Jerry , You seem to have both your questioned answered .

Yes you top off the batteries till both are in float
Yes you set the Genny to auto start .

As you are discovering we have a mighty fine coach for camping .

Al Perna
1998 Prevost Vantare
2000 LXI ss ( for sale)
Ormond Beach Fla
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05-13-2019, 14:10
Post: #58
RE: Setting your Trace Auto Gen Start Parameters
Thanks Al.....I learned a lot this last weekend.

Jerry Kocher
1998 Prevost 40XL Vantare
1987 PT38 (8V92) "The Wayward Bird"
San Francisco, CA
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05-13-2019, 16:29 (This post was last modified: 05-13-2019 16:34 by davidbrady.)
Post: #59
RE: Setting your Trace Auto Gen Start Parameters
Jerry,

While dry camping you can try this trick. Inverter_1 controls your generator. Dip into Menu 10 (Battery Charging) and note the Absorption time, typically 3 hours. Now go into Inverter_2 and set it's absorption time for 4 hours. Inverter_1 will shutoff the generator when it's absorption timer expires. With this setting you should never see Inverter_1 in absorption while Inverter_2 is in float.

Similarly, while driving I often set my Absorption time to something very high like 8 hours. Make this change on both inverters. Now start the generator. Both inverters will stay in absorption eliminating the fighting of the charge cycles; i.e., float in one inverter and absorption in the other. It's okay to keep your inverters in float for this long because often we don't fully charge our batteries; hence, a good long absorption time is good for the batteries. Also, the 50DN is going to keep the charge on the house AGMs at 28.8 VDC anyway.

david brady,
'02 Wanderlodge LXi 'Smokey' (Sold),
'04 Prevost H3 Vantare 'SpongeBob'

"there is no perfect forum there are only perfect forums"
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05-13-2019, 21:10
Post: #60
RE: Setting your Trace Auto Gen Start Parameters
David, When you say while driving you set Absorption time to 8 hrs will this eliminate the need to run the Genny after a days driving to top the battery's off ?

Al Perna
1998 Prevost Vantare
2000 LXI ss ( for sale)
Ormond Beach Fla
fastcubes.com
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